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  • miles
    Participant

    @miles

    – Can the controlling player choose to discard another player’s permanent cards that are in play (e.g. ‘Elite’)?

    No, as the Resource would not be checked on the other players turn for their permanent card.

    – I guess you mean in relation to ‘STEP 4.7 MAINTAIN PERMANENTS’: OK so I think I understand that in this instance the card could not be discarded by the controlling player, because they did not play it themself- is this correct? I think my confusion centers around what “their” card means in the context of a co-op players turn…

    – The permanent card ‘Back pack’… can a controlling player spend another player’s backpack, to gain cards for themself?

    – ‘Elite’ card: Assuming it is still a played permanent, does it grant all players an increased hand limit?

    – ‘Moving Search’ card: How do Tactics cards work in co-op? Is the effect a one off on the controlling player’s turn, or can it be repeated by subsequent players each turn? (as it has not yet been discarded)

    Thanks for your patience with my questions. I know its a co-op experience, but I plan to play co-op with my 2 young daughters, and the clearer I can be RE rules from day 1, the better I’ll avoid potential sibling arguments!


    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by miles.

    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    “– ‘Moving Search’ card: How do Tactics cards work in co-op? Is the effect a one off on the controlling player’s turn, or can it be repeated by subsequent players each turn? (as it has not yet been discarded)”
    To clarify, I mean to query what would happen if ‘Moving Search’ is played by the non-controlling player.


    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    – I guess you mean in relation to ‘STEP 4.7 MAINTAIN PERMANENTS’: OK so I think I understand that in this instance the card could not be discarded by the controlling player, because they did not play it themself- is this correct? I think my confusion centers around what “their” card means in the context of a co-op players turn…

    Let’s make a distinction, there is the Active Player, and a Controlling Player. An Active Player is the player that is currently Controlling the Primary target and facing the Dungeon’s Retaliation. A Controlling Player is the owner of a particular card whether it is an Adventurer or a Tactic card.

    – The permanent card ‘Back pack’… can a controlling player spend another player’s backpack, to gain cards for themself?

    No. Assuming you meant the Active Player, they are not the Controller of the Backpack.

    – ‘Elite’ card: Assuming it is still a played permanent, does it grant all players an increased hand limit?

    No. Only the Controller. It doesn’t matter who’s Resources are being used, but only the Controller gains this benefit.

    – ‘Moving Search’ card: How do Tactics cards work in co-op? Is the effect a one off on the controlling player’s turn, or can it be repeated by subsequent players each turn? (as it has not yet been discarded)

    Thanks for your patience with my questions. I know its a co-op experience, but I plan to play co-op with my 2 young daughters, and the clearer I can be RE rules from day 1, the better I’ll avoid potential sibling arguments!

    (see below)

    Also, you’re quite welcome AND thank you, I do feel that this has brought to light many additional clarifications that would need to be worked on for the next rule version. I may need to simplify some things, solidify some rules, and create clearer terms for co-op.

    “– ‘Moving Search’ card: How do Tactics cards work in co-op? Is the effect a one off on the controlling player’s turn, or can it be repeated by subsequent players each turn? (as it has not yet been discarded)”
    To clarify, I mean to query what would happen if ‘Moving Search’ is played by the non-controlling player.

    It would activate on the Active player’s turn regardless of who the Controller is.


    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    there is the Active Player, and a Controlling Player. An Active Player is the player that is currently Controlling the Primary target and facing the Dungeon’s Retaliation. A Controlling Player is the owner of a particular card whether it is an Adventurer or a Tactic card.

    Awesome, this is a useful terminology clarification for our discussion (I was off track).

    So, some examples please to check my understanding (fingers crossed, I think I’ve got it now!), RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)

    ‘Full plate Armor’ Equipment card: uses 3 equipment resources and contributes +4 stamina this round, and also on the subsequent round (when it is discarded during player Bs Step 4 of round 2). It may be boosted during either or both rounds.

    ‘Brawling’ Skill card: uses 2 skill resources every round until spent (only the controlling player may spend the card).

    ‘Close call’ Tactics card: uses 3 tactics resources and ends round 1 with no more wounds dealt. In round 2 the 3 tactics resources are again used, and the players may agree on when to end the encounter in round 2 (e.g. after the adventurers deliver a wound); it is discarded at the end of round 2. It may be boosted during either or both rounds.

    ‘Fireball’ Magic card: uses 2 magic resources and contributes +4 melee power this round, and also on the subsequent round 2 (it is discarded during player Bs Step 4 of round 2).

    Incidentally, I notice that the specific coop rules document on the DC website (Core rules Vol.3) has a different sequence of play which is more similar to the standard solo rules, where all players reset their cards/resources at the end of each turn. Are the coop rules in the new complete revised rules intended to take a different approach?


    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    Hi I wonder if you could help me clear up some rules questions RE coop play… I notice that the specific coop rules document on the DC website (Core rules Vol.3); the old rules have a different sequence of play which is more similar to the solo rules, where all players reset their cards/resources at the end of each turn. Are the coop rules in the complete revised rules intended to be different? I think all of my confusion is around how to handle the new ‘Step 4’ for non-controlling players cards. WIthout a coop sequence of play, it’s not clear to me how this should work.

    I will try my best. The revised rules are free to view via pdf, and admitted would appear to need work for clarification.

    – The permanent card ‘Back pack’… can a controlling player spend another player’s backpack, to gain cards for themself?

    No.

    – ‘Elite’ card: Assuming it is still a played permanent, does it grant all players an increased hand limit?

    No.

    – ‘Moving Search’ card: How do Tactics cards work in co-op? Is the effect a one off on the controlling player’s turn, or can it be repeated by subsequent players each turn? (as it has not yet been discarded)

    Yes, it is in effect a one off.

    – ‘Fireball’ card: If played by player B (a non-controlling player), on the next turn for player C… would this fireball again contribute its bonus and occupy one magic resource? I think these are my outstanding queries… Would you mind setting my straight?

    No, it is in effect a one off.


    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    Awesome, this is a useful terminology clarification for our discussion (I was off track).

    I’m glad it helps!

    So, some examples please to check my understanding (fingers crossed, I think I’ve got it now!), RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)…

    ‘Full plate Armor’ Equipment card: uses 3 equipment resources and contributes +4 stamina this round, and also on the subsequent round (when it is discarded during player Bs Step 4 of round 2). It may be boosted during either or both rounds.

    Full Plate Armour provides +4 per attacker (from the Dungeon), it can be boosted if an Adventurer is Active and in Play under any controller. It is only actively used to defend against one Retaliation.

    ‘Brawling’ Skill card: uses 2 skill resources every round until spent (only the controlling player may spend the card).

    Brawling requires 1 Skill Resource. Yes, only the Controller can Spend a card.

    ‘Close call’ Tactics card: uses 3 tactics resources and ends round 1 with no more wounds dealt. In round 2 the 3 tactics resources are again used, and the players may agree on when to end the encounter in round 2 (e.g. after the adventurers deliver a wound); it is discarded at the end of round 2. It may be boosted during either or both rounds.

    It is used on the Turn it is played, it does not have Upkeep, however, it is Discarded at the end of it’s Controller’s Turn.

    Upkeep for permanents does not equal Not regaining your Resources. It IS possible to regain the Tactics Resources from another Player before a Tactic card leaves play on your Turn (or vice versa).

    ‘Fireball’ Magic card: uses 2 magic resources and contributes +4 melee power this round, and also on the subsequent round 2 (it is discarded during player Bs Step 4 of round 2).

    Note, this is not what Fireball does. Fireball Costs 1, and deals +2 Ranged (fire) damage.

    No. I think there is some confusion on how combat works.

    Incidentally, I notice that the specific coop rules document on the DC website (Core rules Vol.3) has a different sequence of play which is more similar to the standard solo rules, where all players reset their cards/resources at the end of each turn. Are the coop rules in the new complete revised rules intended to take a different approach?

    Yes, Core Rules Vol 3 was part of the initial rule set, which is an optional and easier way to play. We DID do an update to the co-op rules to make the game more challenging in the new Revised Rules.


    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    As the magic long sword is not removed until the end of the non-controlling players next round, does the sword still contribute it’s +4 melee power in each subsequent round until it is removed?

    This is correct.

    OK I think I misunderstood your responses to my earlier questions RE how ‘Magic Long sword’ would work in coop… not helped by the fact that I think we’ve since clarified terminology for controlling player Vs active player!

    Would you please review this example and explain the correct effect and resource rules for ‘Magic long sword’? My best guess at the moment is that, RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)…

    – Uses 2 equipment resources this round and contributes +4 melee (supernatural) this round, but 0 equipment resources next round and 0 melee power next round (when it is removed during player Bs Step 4 of round 2). It may be boosted only during round 1.

    So generally non-permanent crawler cards provide a one off benefit on the round in which they are played, and only require ‘upkeep’ of resources in that single round (just like in solo mode). However, they will only be removed from play at the end of the controlling players next round (this is the key difference to solo mode).

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.

    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    OK I think I misunderstood your responses to my earlier questions RE how ‘Magic Long sword’ would work in coop… not helped by the fact that I think we’ve since clarified terminology for controlling player Vs active player!

    I was wrong and I will update that response. It would only work on the active players turn.

    Would you please review this example and explain the correct effect and resource rules for ‘Magic long sword’? My best guess at the moment is that, RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)…

    – Uses 2 equipment resources this round and contributes +4 melee (supernatural) this round, but 0 equipment resources next round and 0 melee power next round (when it is removed during player Bs Step 4 of round 2). It may be boosted only during round 1.

    Correct.

    So generally non-permanent crawler cards provide a one off benefit on the round in which they are played, and only require ‘upkeep’ of resources in that single round (just like in solo mode). However, they will only be removed from play at the end of the controlling players next round (this is the key difference to solo mode).

    Correct (I believe that I am reading this correctly, lol).


    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    Great, thanks for the swift reply. I’m think I’m clear now 🙂

    I also found this coop review in BGG, which seems to descibe the rules in the same way:
    https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/2693692/review-dungeon-crawler-focus-cooperative-play

    Please feel free to tidy up any of my misunderstandings in previous posts, if you think it would help for posterity. The example of play for solo in the revised rulebook is excellent, perhaps in future you could also include a short example of play for coop? (even just a couple of rounds).

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.
    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.

    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    Thanks kindly for your patience! 🙂


    miles
    Participant

    @miles

    – ‘Elite’ card: Assuming it is still a played permanent, does it grant all players an increased hand limit?

    No.

    RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)…
    – ‘Elite’ card uses 1 skill resource this round and contributes +2 hand limit size for player B this round. This upkeep cost and effect will be the same in every subsequent round until the card leaves play for some reason (i.e. on all of Player A’s turns, Player A will have 1 less skill resource available, despite having a regular 5 hand limit). Is this correct?

    • This reply was modified 3 weeks, 6 days ago by miles.

    GiftedVision
    Keymaster

    @giftedvision

    RE a 2 player coop game, with cards played on round 1 of the game by the non-active player (let’s call them player B)…
    – ‘Elite’ card uses 1 skill resource this round and contributes +2 hand limit size for player B this round. This upkeep cost and effect will be the same in every subsequent round until the card leaves play for some reason (i.e. on all of Player A’s turns, Player A will have 1 less skill resource available, despite having a regular 5 hand limit). Is this correct?

    Correct.

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